Electric Boats: Close to Ruling the Waters?

Dunya Jovanovic: Frank, before we dive into the details of your work in the electric boat industry, could you give our listeners a bit of background about yourself and what sparked the creation of Halevai?

Frank Heidinger: Absolutely, and thank you for having me. My journey into the realm of electric watercraft wasn't straightforward. It began with a deep-seated passion for ocean conservation that took a decisive turn in 2012. At that time, I was walking down Grand Street in New York City when I stumbled upon shark fin products still being sold. This discovery reignited a childhood passion for marine life conservation and spurred me to pivot my career toward activism and innovation in this field. This pivot led me to spearhead a successful campaign to make shark fin products illegal in New York, a movement supported by many organizations.

Through this activism, I crossed paths with Parley for the Oceans. My collaboration with Parley spanned a decade, focusing on combating ocean plastic pollution and fostering global partnerships with brands like Adidas. This work opened my eyes to the inefficiencies and environmental impact of gas-powered boats, which are prevalent in marine conservation efforts. It was this realization that led to the birth of Halevai, where we aim to revolutionize the industry with electric-powered watercraft designed and built in America.

DJ: With other companies venturing into electric boats, what sets Halevai apart in this emerging market?

FH: While it's true that we're not alone in this field, Halevai differentiates itself through its unique approach to power efficiency and design. Our focus is not just on creating an electric boat but on redefining what a boat can be. We've introduced a trimaran semi-planing hull, which drastically reduces water resistance, allowing for a more spacious and versatile deck experience compared to traditional boats. This innovation not only enhances the boating experience but also makes it more efficient and environmentally friendly.

DJ: Electric vehicles are becoming more common, but electric boats are still a novelty to many. How do you charge an electric boat, and what infrastructure is needed?

FH: This is a common question, and the answer is simpler than most expect. Electric boats can be charged at any marina equipped with shore power, using standard adapters. Our design philosophy is seamlessly integrating electric boats into the existing boating lifestyle. Therefore, charging our boats is as easy as charging any other electronic device, making the transition to electric boating straightforward for our customers.

DJ: Transitioning to a startup in a niche and innovative sector must have been fraught with challenges. Can you share some of the hurdles you've faced in starting and growing Halevai?

FH: The path of innovation is inherently filled with challenges, from conceptualization to execution. One of the primary challenges was engineering the most efficient hull for our boats, which required extensive research and development. Additionally, establishing a supply chain that aligns with our commitment to American-made products was a significant hurdle. We've formed partnerships with industry leaders to ensure the quality and serviceability of our boats, integrating parts that can be serviced widely to ensure convenience for our customers.

DJ: How do you see the market and potential customers reacting to this new concept?

FH: The initial reaction is often of curiosity and skepticism. However, once people experience the silent, clean, and efficient nature of electric boating, their perspective shifts dramatically. Marketing plays a crucial role in this transition, as it's about educating the market on the benefits and possibilities that electric boats offer over traditional gas-powered alternatives. Once customers understand the ease of maintenance, lower operating costs, and environmental benefits, the appeal of electric boats becomes evident.

DJ: Who do you see as your target audience?

FH: Our target audience is twofold. Firstly, we cater to recreational boaters who are environmentally conscious and have the disposable income to invest in a premium boating experience. Secondly, we see a significant opportunity in partnering with marine research institutes and educational organizations seeking to minimize their carbon footprint. Our boats offer a unique value proposition by combining luxury with sustainability, appealing to a broad spectrum of users.

DJ: Your debut model, the Halevai 2050 has garnered quite a bit of attention. Could you delve a little deeper into what makes this model unique and its significance?

FH: The 2050 model is a cornerstone of our vision, symbolizing our commitment to a sustainable future. The name is a nod to the global aim of achieving carbon neutrality by 2050. This model embodies our commitment to pushing the boundaries of what's possible with electric propulsion on water. It features a trimaran design that optimizes efficiency and space, providing an unmatched on-deck experience while maintaining high performance and range. 

DJ: Where do you identify the most significant opportunities for growth within the electric boat sector?

FH: The growth opportunities are vast. For one, municipal services present a significant area for expansion, particularly for operations requiring short-range mobility, such as harbor patrols and marine research. These applications benefit immensely from the efficiency, reliability, and reduced environmental impact of electric propulsion. Furthermore, the recreational boating market, especially in inland waters, represents a ripe avenue for adoption. The United States alone boasts thousands of lakes and rivers where electric boats can provide a cleaner, quieter, and more enjoyable boating experience. As awareness and infrastructure continue to grow, we anticipate increasing demand from recreational users who seek a sustainable alternative to traditional gas-powered boats.

DJ: Do you have any advice for entrepreneurs looking to make a similar impact in the clean tech space?

FH: My main piece of advice is to follow your passion relentlessly but be prepared for the challenges that lie ahead. Innovating in the cleantech space is not only about introducing new technologies but also about changing long-standing habits and perceptions. This journey is fraught with obstacles, from technical challenges to market acceptance and regulatory hurdles. However, if you're driven by a genuine desire to make a difference, these challenges become milestones on a rewarding path. Stay committed, be ready to adapt, and surround yourself with a team that shares your vision and dedication.

00:00 - Dunya (Host)

Hey, hey, you are watching a brand new episode of the Green New Perspective podcast. If you're new to the channel, welcome and get ready to be introduced to some amazing companies that are developing tech aimed at combating climate change. 

00:12

And if you are, a regular on our channel then you might have watched the episode we have previously recorded on electric vehicles mainly trucks and cars and today's episode is basically in continuation to that story. So we are focusing on electric boats and their benefits on marine ecosystems. My guest today is Frank Heidinger. He's the CEO of a company called Halivai, which specializes in developing electric boats. Stay tuned, hi Frank, and welcome to the Green New Perspective podcast. 

 

00:50 - Frank (Guest)

Good morning, how are you? 

 

00:51 - Dunya (Host)

Oh, I'm good. Can you introduce yourself to our audience and tell me what made you start a company in the electric boat space? 

 

01:01 - Frank (Guest)

My name is Frank Heidinger. I'm the CEO and founder of Polivai. We build electric watercraft here in America. The journey there kind of went through various stages. You know, the earliest transition started in 2012, when I realized that shark fins a product that I was aware of as being this really grotesque product. You know, 100 million sharks are killed every year for their fins. It's a pretty gruesome process, and I was walking down Grand Street in New York City and I noticed that this product was still legal in New York City and I thought, oh, that's something that I was really passionate about as a child when I first learned about this and nothing's really been done to stop it. And so that was a pivotal moment for me to say I'm going to stop what I'm working on professionally and I'm going to dedicate a good amount of time to activism, change, innovation policy. But I didn't really know how how I was going to start that process, and so I did ultimately run a very successful campaign and we made Shark Fin products illegal in the state of New York, with the help of a lot of organizations, of course, but I kind of did run that campaign to make it possible, and in the process of doing that I met an individual who had just founded an organization called Parley for the Oceans. We started to spend time together and we started to talk about building events and doing this really big kickoff event, and so I co-partnered with them and produced this event and that took me through 10 years of working in various capacities with Parley on ocean collection, plastic pollution collection, which we then where. They then trademarked ocean plastic and started these really amazing global collaborations with big brands like Adidas, for example, big sports affiliations and artist affiliations. 

 

02:43

And in the process of doing that work, going around the world and seeing the things that we were building, you notice that a lot of the really good work that happens on the water level, at the dock, it was happening on small watercraft that were all powered by gas and these gas engines are extremely inefficient. In the US, regulations in the late 70s made the four-stroke the common motor type, the outboard motor type, but really nothing's been advanced since then and if you look, even today, much of these motors are consuming significantly high numbers of gasoline per mile. So, for example, when we think about cars, we talk about 15, 20, 23, 25 miles per gallon. When you talk about boats, you're talking like three to five miles per gallon, so they're really extremely inefficient. However, they take us into one of the most beautiful places on planet earth, right, our lakes, our rivers, our waterways, our tidal estuaries, our oceans. 

 

03:33

And so I thought well, if we're doing good work and we're trying to clean up plastic and we're trying to help local communities, we're trying to create a better supply chain, could we not do it with a renewal energy power source? And that was the beginning of us going into the formation of Holloway. And then, of course, that takes you through the following three years of R&D, where you learn what really does exist and what you really can do and how you really can harness that power. 

 

03:57 - Dunya (Host)

Are there any other companies who are doing the same things as you do? 

 

04:01 - Frank (Guest)

There's a few. Structurally we're a little bit different. So batteries exist. They are expensive and they are heavy and they are complex. So when you're trying to harness power to push a boat on water there's. 

 

04:13

The one differentiating factor where we designed a trimaran semi-planning hull is that we were trying to lower the resistances that happen naturally when you're trying to move something over water Traditionally gas-powered vehicles, the horsepower is cheap. Gas is not cheap, but horsepower is cheap, Meaning if you design a boat and it's not the most hydrodynamic vessel, you can just put a lot of power on it and it'll move. When you're dealing with electric, to do that costs a lot of money, which then gets crossed over to the customer right. We designed an open deck hull that allows us to have more space on board for recreation, for research, but it also is extremely efficient when dealing with harnessing this power. So our resistances are half or more than your traditional V-hull boat. The traditional boat, you see, is what we call a displacement hull. It's just a V in the water and it takes an enormous amount of energy to force that up onto a plane and to maintain that power over distance. 

 

05:09 - Dunya (Host)

And is there any infrastructure for powering e-boats? 

 

05:12 - Frank (Guest)

When you say infrastructure, you mean how? 

 

05:15 - Dunya (Host)

do you charge? 

 

05:16 - Frank (Guest)

them. So charging is the number one question we get, and it's the simplest answer because it's like any other device. 

 

05:23

It charges anywhere. You plug it in. When you're thinking about recharging a car, you think about how far do I have to go today and do I have enough power to get there? When you're dealing with boats, people typically go recreational watercraft or research vessels. We're focused on these two categories. We're talking about families and friends going out for the day, where you spend three to five hours out on a boat. 

 

05:42

You do a range of different types of travel. You do slow speeds in harbor. Some people never go out of the harbors, right? In fact, there are places all around the country where there's no wake zones throughout the entire marina, but these are massive marinas I'm using, for example, in my mind I'm thinking about Newport, california, which is a really cool market for us right? The entire marina, miles long, is a no-wake zone, so you can't go more than six knots. Our batteries will last 200 miles at that speed, so you wouldn't have to charge them that often. However, you can plug into any shore power, so any marina in the country that has shore power available, all you have to do is plug in there. It requires you buying one adapter on Amazon, which costs about $12, which is a twist lock, which is the standard Marina configuration. Simply put, you can plug any level one or level two charger into the same outlet that you plug your iPhone into and you can charge. Now charging is slower at 110 volts right. 

 

06:38

It's an overnight charge, so you would need the full 12 to 15 hours to charge our packs. However, if you have 240 available, which most people do, it's the same thing that powers your washer or your dryer. Rather, you can plug in there and be charged in four and a half hours. 

 

06:51 - Dunya (Host)

When you started the company? What challenges have you faced in starting and growing Halibuy? 

 

06:57 - Frank (Guest)

There's challenges everywhere. There's challenges on the engineering side, which are not so much challenges as much as they are just big question marks that you have to research and trial and hire really good teams to figure out. On the engineering side, one of the first challenges we faced was the one I mentioned. It was what is the most efficient hull style for moving vehicles over water. You get two things when you lower the resistance and you change the hull. Our hull allows you to have a more open deck space, which means more people can be on board. You have different experiences that can happen on board and you can take a 24 foot boat and you actually turn it into a much larger experiential vehicle. Right, because you can have three distinct sections. You have a forward section which six people could sit and have dinner at. You have a center section where the console is, where a few people can stand around. There's handholds, there's a full daybed in the back, there's an easy swim platform, so it's easy to get on and off. So if you're doing research or if you're a diver, or if you're a snorkeler and you want to get into the water and out of the water with kids, super, super easy. So designing that stuff. There's always going to be complications in design and engineering and there's also supply chain. Where is the best place to buy these systems from? 

 

08:01

We made a choice early on that we wanted to build as much of these parts in America, and simply because the majority of gas boats that we see sold in America are actually built in America. Obviously, when you get to the super luxury categories and you start to think about a lot of the Dutch and the Italian and there's a lot of things happening in Europe on the larger formats, but the average day boat, whether it's a bass boat or a center console or a pontoon boat or any of the bigger categories for recreation, most of those boats sold in America are built in America, and so it would be a little silly if we were to be forward thinking on innovation and power and renewable energy and we were shipping boats across the planet just because the cost of building them was a little bit lower. So that was a challenge finding the right partnerships. We built a powertrain partnership with Hypercraft. We built OEM relationships with Mercury and Navico. These are the largest suppliers in the marine industry. That sort of segues into another really big challenge, which is serviceability. 

 

08:55

Auto and boats operate very differently. Boats need to be serviced more regularly. Electric systems don't need to be serviced as regularly as gas systems, but they do need to be serviced and if something goes wrong you want to be able to bring it in somewhere local. You mentioned the other competitors. There are a few that are building these systems from start to finish, like automotive right. The challenge with that is, if you sell 50 boats in 50 states, you need to service 50 boats in 50 states. You need to service 50 boats in 50 states. 

 

09:20

What we've done is integrate existing parts from marine. For example, we use stern drives from Mercury. This is the same stern drive that's on tens of thousands of boats, if not hundreds of thousands of boats. You can service this at 4,300 Mercury-authorized service stations around the country. Every lake, every community has a mercury authorized service station. So if anything goes wrong with the outdrive, it doesn't really matter that it's electric propulsion, it can be serviced anywhere. Those types of challenges are ones that you face and those are decisions you make early days. And, of course, with COVID and supply chain slows and increases in price and inflation, all those other things which affect every other business, those are part of the same challenges we face on a daily basis. 

 

10:01 - Dunya (Host)

How do people react to? The notion of e-boats. I mean, we are used to electric cars, but I don't think that people are using electric boats as much. So what's the role of marketing in there? Marketing and storytelling in order to explain to people. Why should we use e-boats now? 

 

10:17 - Frank (Guest)

This is actually my favorite topic to talk about, because you started the conversation with are they easy to charge? 

 

10:22

And the reality is they're super easy to charge In fact it's a lot easier to maintain an electric boat than it is a gas boat, because I have my partner's boat at our house here for testing purposes, right, and it's a gas boat and I have to constantly be thinking about where am I going to go to get gas? Is it going to be too busy? Is there going to be a line? It's very expensive to fuel a gas boat and you use a lot more fuel in a boat than you think you're going to use, right? But outside of that, there's the experience. People are not comfortable yet with the idea of electric boats because they haven't been on one, but as soon as they step on and I find this with females more than even males that the first driving experience is like exhilarating, because it's really simple and it's different, it's approachable. 

 

11:03

When someone steps on board, you go here, come over, let's, let me show you how it works. And there's a fob. So it's a keyless entry. There's no key, there's just a little fob, like you would go to open your gate to get in, you know, home or something. You fob on and you hear a little click and then the power's on and you say okay, and you fob on and you hear a little click and then the power's on and you say, okay, hit this button. It says start, stop. So it's really straightforward, like a car, and that means the high voltage is now active and then there's a green button which which engages the propeller, which means that now you have you have power to the propeller and that's it. 

 

11:33

And then you start navigating and to that point there's no roar, there's no sound, there's little click, and then you put it in gear and it starts to turn. You can hear a little something, but it's very, very low, very, very light. And you start to hear the water sort of slapping against the hull and then you start the navigation. A lot of boats this is now what you think what boating is about, and that's always interesting too. And then when you go out into the area where you can actually open it up and you give it the throttle and it just responds, it just picks up quickly. It reaches a plane very nicely and as you're at speed it actually gets quieter because the environmental sounds become greater Meaning. 

 

12:16

When you're at low speed you can hear a little bit of something, because there's not a lot of water slapping against the side of the boat. But when you start to pick up speed, the water rushing along the hull is really the sound you hear, and so the motor kind of disappears and there's a really nice sort of exhilarating experience of being in that type of forced environment where you're moving at speed, there's not a lot of background noise, you're really connecting with nature. So experientially it is quite different and I really enjoy it. And a bunch of folks that we go out with regularly, who help us with demos or who are just in the area, will say, oh, let's take the electric boat, I like it so much better. So there are things it so much better, so there are things it can't do. We can talk about that too. I'm happy to share all the things it can't do, right, but it's built for a certain type of navigation and experience and it's definitely rewarding. 

 

13:01 - Dunya (Host)

And what's your target audience? 

 

13:03 - Frank (Guest)

So our boats are priced in the base boats are priced at $185,000. So right off the bat we're expensive. We are half the price of what competitor electrics look like and we're also giving a much bigger on-deck experience. There's a lot more room to move around, there's a lot more versatility with our boat, a lot more balance with the way that it's been designed because it is a trimaran. So right off the bat we're dealing with recreational buyers who have the disposable income to be able to afford that kind of a boat. We're also working very closely with marine institutes. 

 

13:34

When colleges and universities have a demand from senior management to lower carbon in every department, and when you're dealing with marine research, this is a particularly big goal because you go out to do good work and collect really valuable data and start to help build a picture of what ecosystems health are looking like. And while you're doing that you're leaking oil and you're carbon and you're making noise and you have breakdowns and there's black smoke. So colleges and universities want to get away from this wherever they can. Within the limitations of the range, which is about 50 nautical miles for our extended range packs, that is well within the day range of most institutions' work. When you're dealing with blue water, that's a little bit different, but when you're dealing with lakes, tidal estuaries, mangroves, bays, intercoastals, there's these big, really important biological communities. 

 

14:24

These really important parts of our ecosystem are usually the areas closest to land or just inland, because they're essentially the nurseries for the next generation of fish and birds and wildlife, and so keeping those parts of the ecosystem healthy is really important to us, and so we offer a solution where these institutions can plug in for a really low price. I mean, we calculate our batteries our batteries on the US average cost. These are extended range packs. It costs around $11 to fill up from 15% to 100. The gas equivalent for that is about $120 to go the same range. So you think about that. If you're doing research, every time you go out and you run 50 nautical miles worth of research, there's $100 savings. And so think about for municipalities who are out doing this every single day, protecting communities. This is a perfect boat for that because it lowers costs over time. 

 

15:21 - Dunya (Host)

We had as a guest here on the podcast a CEO of a company called Arctic Ice Project and they're actually developing technology that prevents the melting of the Arctic ice and they use the boats to transfer the technology from the US to the Arctic because they wanted to make the whole process green. That's similar to what you were saying collaborating with a lot of people who are interested in lowering their carbon emissions. Did you get any feedback from your customers or your collaborators? How did you handle that feedback? Have you incorporated it into the design? 

 

15:54 - Frank (Guest)

Yeah, so what we've done in the first year of development testing is really work with our initial customers on beta testing. So essentially we've had inquiries from a wide range of people around the country to buy our boats and we've kind of limited that to late 2024, early 2025 deliveries. And the reason being is that we really wanted to know each customer but we wanted to bring in collaboration of sorts where we say, listen, we want you to be our first customer, but we also want you to work with us. You're not going to get your boat until late 2024, but in the meantime, allow us to demo the boat with you and help us make the best version for you. 

 

16:33

So we've designed a recreational version of the watercraft and we've designed an institutional version of the watercraft, and there are subtle differences. There are things you need in recreation, like day beds and more room to lay out and enjoy, and then there's things for institutions where you need that are a little bit more utilitarian. You don't need fancy decks, but you need non-skids and you need the deck surface to be very clean and easy to walk around and move around on. So we've done a lot of that, asking the initial client to be our beta testing facility and that way they're getting the product that they helped design and obviously all of those design improvements will go into the scale production that we deliver in 2025. 

 

17:12 - Dunya (Host)

You've recently announced your debut model. It's called 2050, if I'm not wrong. So can you tell me a bit more about the model and what makes it unique. 

 

17:22 - Frank (Guest)

Yeah. So, on the way to telling you about the model, I'll tell you about the name. Halavai is a very old Aramaic, yiddish, hebrew word, and the meaning of the word is the sort of will for it to be Something that you know will change, that will get better. You don't know exactly how, but you are committed to the fact that it will change and that it will get better, and we really love this word. The Model 50 is or the Model 2050, which is our debut model, was actually created as a look at the year 2050. So when we talked about COP21, which is the significant climate conference that took place in Paris a few years ago, it was really the first time that governments and institutions had come together and said 2050 is the year that all of these big global superpowers, which are the ones creating the carbon, we're going to look at as a place where they could be net zero, where they could be carbon neutral, and so we thought, well, what a great thing to have our first model be named after the year. So it's really for us, it's like putting a goal out there and saying, what if all recreational watercraft could be powered by renewable energy? Solutions Could be electric, could be others to come. But what if that was the goal? 

 

18:30

So the goal with the first model is to talk about the future and say this is what we have now. We can harness renewable energy. It's low cost energy. It's a low cost, efficient system, lower maintenance. It's a new style of boating. What is that going to look like in 2050? The other thing that ended up happening, which is kind of fun and cool, is that our cruising speed is about 20 knots, which is about 22 miles per hour. That's like a really efficient speed for us to be up on plane going long distances. It's a very, very efficient. It's the most efficient speed for our boat to be in, and the range we get at that speed with our extended range battery packs is 50 nautical miles. So it was this really interesting thing. We named the boat the Model 2050 because it was thinking about the year 2050. But the actual metrics of 20 knots at 50 nautical miles, which is what the boat actually performs at. So it actually has a dual meaning. Now. 

 

19:19 - Dunya (Host)

Where do you see the biggest opportunities for growth in electric boats? 

 

19:23 - Frank (Guest)

At every level of municipality that does short-range mobility. We are building prototypes for municipalities, moving away from composite structures, which is fairly common in recreation. So our first boat is built out of composite structures. So it's a vacuum-infused mold. It's a very strong hull. But when you deal with municipalities, often they want aluminum hulls, they want them to be stronger, they want to use them more often, they want to use them more. They get banged into things, they get dings, and so composites tend not to be as strong as aluminum. 

 

19:54

However, in the recreational market people don't really want aluminum boats, they want fiberglass boats. 

 

19:59

So I think at every level of municipality where there's harbor patrols, at every level where there's institutions, where people, where groups, institutions, whether it's colleges or universities or just private NGOs are doing marine research in these inner or intercoastal waterways, this is a perfect place for us and then, as our recreational market grows, we're going to be expanding to all the lake communities of the United States. 

 

20:24

You know, 80% of boating in the US happens inside the land and doesn't happen on the coasts. It's interesting that the number of boats sold every year, 80% of those boats are for inland use because there are, you know, in Minnesota alone 10,000 lakes. There's some really big boating communities inland in the US, and so I think that there's so much potential for us in the future to sort of slowly move across the country into both the recreational spaces. You know, one of the things we'll have to do is look at models that have shorter range, that get the price down, which allow us to sell to a greater number of people in these communities, because 50 nautical miles is a lot of range. It may sound to an offshore fisherman or an offshore boater 50 nautical miles is not a lot, but when you're dealing with recreational use or institutional use, your average is 10 to 20, 23 miles per day max. So we may build a boat for those communities that has a slightly lower range, but it also significantly reduces the cost so that more people can buy these boats. 

 

21:28 - Dunya (Host)

You mentioned that you basically entered this cleantech community out of personal passion, so do you have any advice for other people who wants to start a company in this space? 

 

21:36 - Frank (Guest)

Do what your heart tells you to do. If you're driven by purpose, then you should do what your heart tells you to do, but be prepared that it often doesn't work out the way you'd like it to and that you will be hit with a lot of real challenges and real questions and real solutions and real financial concerns, because there are entities at play that do not want this type of technology to be successful, and there's also the natural things that occur in business, the unforeseen things that come up. In America. There's a lot of innovation happening. I would encourage people to keep going. 

 

22:07 - Dunya (Host)

When you started, you didn't have a lot of knowledge, so where did you get it? Can you share some communities, slack channels, website resource for other people in clean tech? Who wants to join and wants to explore this? 

 

22:18 - Frank (Guest)

Yeah, I mean I'm not going to be the best in recommending that stuff because what we did is really we went and did a lot of independent research. Initially, once we said we were going to do this, we hired people. We scaled up by hiring really good engineers and really good naval architects and really good folks who had experience in recreational and institutional and even Department of Defense boating developments. So we learned from the really great people we hired. 

 

22:47 - Dunya (Host)

And where can people learn more about you, about the company? Maybe you know DM. You write you an email, ask you questions. 

 

22:55 - Frank (Guest)

Yeah, for sure. So we on Instagram. You can reach us at holivipower. So it's at holivipower. That's H-A-L-E-V-A-I-P-O-W-E-R. Our website is hollowaycom. You can easily reach us there. Send us a note, follow and so those are the main resources. We also use at Holloway Power on Twitter or X. So yeah, those are the main channels of communication. 

 

23:22 - Dunya (Host)

Well, thank you. That's the end of our conversation. 

 

23:24

Thank you for being my guest here on the podcast. Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it. On e-boats, consider leaving your thoughts in the comment section below. This episode is proudly sponsored by New Perspective, a Boston-based marketing agency working with cleantech clients only, and, as always, I invite you to explore what our sponsors are doing by clicking on the links in the description of this episode, and, if you want to support us and our mission to showcase some amazing, amazing cleantech companies, please subscribe to our channel on your favorite streaming platform. That means the world to us. Once again, thank you for watching the episode and hopefully I'll see you in the next one. Bye.