The Biotech Solution For Fashion Sustainability

Dunya Jovanovic: Catherine, tell us, what motivated the transition from leading positions at established companies like Revlon, L'Oréal, and Christian Louboutin to becoming the CEO of Modern Meadow, your own biotech firm?

Catherine Roggero-Lovisi: After two decades in the beauty and fashion industry managing iconic global brands, I felt a growing need for change. The last years of my career involved introducing groundbreaking innovations to the market. This exposure led me to consider the impact of our technological advancements on the planet. I realized the necessity to shift from technology-focused solely on performance to one that sustains itself by replacing resources extracted from nature with more eco-friendly alternatives.

DJ: Could you break down what Modern Meadow does?

CRL: At Modern Meadow, we're at the forefront of leveraging proteins and their properties to create sustainable materials. By harnessing plant-based proteins and biopolymers, we develop textiles that mimic leather without relying on animal products. Our aim is to balance superior performance with minimal environmental impact.

DJ: Could you elaborate on the necessity for more sustainable materials in the fashion industry?

CRL: The fashion industry, while diverse in its practices, generally demands significant resource extraction and consumption of energy and water. From the very origin of materials to the production of garments, these processes significantly impact the environment. This is where the need for sustainable alternatives becomes paramount. Transitioning away from petrochemicals and animal inputs is crucial for reducing this impact.

DJ: With the rise of plant-based alternatives, like pineapple leather or cactus leather, how does Modern Meadow's material differentiate itself?

CRL: While few of those alternatives have entered the market, many of them use plant-based ingredients as “filler” in order to augment the material with additional bio content. These ingredients have inherent limitations and are not able to provide all of the properties and benefits that brands need in a material. What sets Modern Meadow's materials apart is our focus on utilizing traceable and functional plant-based proteins. These proteins possess a unique mechanical property that makes our materials more durable, breathable, limitless in color palette, and more, thereby delivering a more sustainable solution that maintains performance and quality.

DJ: The fashion industry seems to have made some progress towards sustainability, but there are challenges in adopting innovative materials. Could you speak to that?

CRL: The fashion industry is vast, with companies having complex internal structures and processes. Integrating new materials or practices requires approval from various departments, often leading to delays in adoption. There's also the inherent risk associated with switching to newer, less tested materials, which hinders rapid adoption.

DJ: Do you find communicating these new technologies a challenge?

CRL: Absolutely, conveying the capabilities and limitations of new technologies is crucial. Misconceptions and high expectations often make it hard for consumers and brands to fully understand the benefits of these materials. It's crucial to communicate the reality behind these innovative solutions clearly.

DJ: As you look to the future, where do you see Modern Meadow and the broader use of biomaterials?

CRL: Modern Meadow envisions an expansive role in different industries, moving beyond fashion and footwear into automotive, interior and more. Collaborating with multiple industries will amplify the accessibility of innovative biomaterials. We're looking to form strategic partnerships that will allow us to introduce these materials across several sectors.

DJ: Finally, looking ahead, how do you see the future of sustainability? Are you optimistic?

CRL: I am indeed optimistic. Sustainability isn't just about environmental conservation; it's also a necessary avenue for business growth and human prosperity. As we continue on this journey, we're going to encounter challenges, but they're worthwhile for the greater good.

00:00:00.150 --> 00:00:03.410
Hello and welcome to another episode
of The Green New Perspective.

00:00:03.420 --> 00:00:06.330
Hopefully your go to podcast.
If you want to learn more about

00:00:06.330 --> 00:00:09.000
innovations happening within
clean tech, nature, tech,

00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:13.050
biotech and agritech space.
This week's episode is proudly

00:00:13.050 --> 00:00:16.830
sponsored by New Perspective,
a Boston based marketing agency

00:00:16.830 --> 00:00:19.860
working with clean tech clients.
So if you want to learn more

00:00:19.860 --> 00:00:23.580
about our sponsor, please check
out the info in the description

00:00:23.580 --> 00:00:27.780
of this video. My name is Dunya.
I'm your host today and my guest is

00:00:27.930 --> 00:00:32.850
the wonderful Catherine Roggero-Lovisi,
the CEO of the biotechnology

00:00:32.850 --> 00:00:36.420
company named Modern Meadow.
They are using nature inspired

00:00:36.420 --> 00:00:39.840
proteins to develop sustainable
materials and products for fashion,

00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:43.950
beauty and other industries like
biomaterial alternatives to leather,

00:00:43.950 --> 00:00:46.110
for example.
So with the track record in

00:00:46.110 --> 00:00:49.080
companies like L'Oreal, Revlon,
Christian Louboutin,

00:00:49.080 --> 00:00:53.250
Catherine's expertise ensures product
traceability and global scalability.

00:00:53.250 --> 00:00:56.040
So if you want to learn more about
how to place your innovative

00:00:56.040 --> 00:00:59.400
technology on the global market
or how to scale your sustainable

00:00:59.400 --> 00:01:03.240
business, stay tuned and listen
to what Catherine has to say.

00:01:12.630 --> 00:01:16.130
Hello, Catherine, and welcome to
the Green New Perspective podcast.

00:01:16.140 --> 00:01:19.110
It's really lovely to have you here.
Good morning and thank you.

00:01:19.110 --> 00:01:23.580
I'm very honored to to join you this
morning. It's morning at your place.

00:01:23.580 --> 00:01:31.950
It's 7 p.m.. Here.
So good morning. So let.

00:01:31.950 --> 00:01:37.260
Us introduce. You a little bit.
So you held leading positions at

00:01:37.260 --> 00:01:42.030
big renowned companies like Revlon,
L'Oreal, Christian Louboutin.

00:01:42.030 --> 00:01:46.260
And then you became the CEO of Modern
Meadow, which is your company,

00:01:46.260 --> 00:01:49.500
a biotech company.
So can you tell us what inspired

00:01:49.500 --> 00:01:53.520
this career change?
Well, you know, as you mentioned,

00:01:53.520 --> 00:01:57.570
I spent 20 years in the in the either
the beauty of the fashion industry,

00:01:57.570 --> 00:02:01.890
if you want and,
and all surrounded by amazing brands

00:02:02.850 --> 00:02:07.140
and and managing basically those
brands right everywhere in the world,

00:02:07.140 --> 00:02:11.910
maybe in North America or in
Asia Pacific or even globally.

00:02:12.450 --> 00:02:17.790
Um, the really the move to go into
modern meadow, who is, as you say,

00:02:17.790 --> 00:02:22.470
biotech bio fabrication company,
was really associated with the

00:02:22.470 --> 00:02:25.920
desire to change or build the
world from within.

00:02:26.360 --> 00:02:29.190
Um,
I was at the tail end of innovation,

00:02:29.190 --> 00:02:32.310
basically receiving innovation
and bringing them to market.

00:02:32.310 --> 00:02:38.040
And I felt that as we need to
transition from technology that are

00:02:38.040 --> 00:02:43.260
just amazing in terms of performance,
but take a toll on on the resources

00:02:43.260 --> 00:02:49.860
that we are all extracting or
consuming in as we speak may be

00:02:49.860 --> 00:02:54.000
animal import or petrochemical.
I needed to join a company which

00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:58.230
innovation was to basically what
we call now eco design,

00:02:58.230 --> 00:03:03.450
which is inject those requirements of
substituting animal input and Virgin

00:03:03.450 --> 00:03:08.850
Petrochemical to buy other input.
And in this case we use,

00:03:09.240 --> 00:03:12.930
in the case of modern metal,
either plant based protein or polymer

00:03:12.930 --> 00:03:17.880
and and or polymers that we design
or protein, we design ourselves

00:03:18.540 --> 00:03:24.390
and and produce via fermentation.
So that's really the reason why I

00:03:24.390 --> 00:03:30.240
kind of went up the supply chain,
if you want went from brands to,

00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:35.130
to innovator to innovator with solid
tech that could bring to market

00:03:35.130 --> 00:03:39.450
product which are both performance
and sustainable. And can you.

00:03:39.450 --> 00:03:44.790
Explain to our listeners, what do
you actually do at Mother Meadow?

00:03:44.790 --> 00:03:48.660
But can you explain it in like
simple words? Because we.

00:03:48.900 --> 00:03:51.840
Well, first of all, I'm not a PhD,
you know, so that's going to

00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:56.700
make it easier on everybody.
I do I am very lucky.

00:03:56.700 --> 00:04:02.460
I'm surrounded by very smart PhDs and
engineers, but fundamentally I'm not.

00:04:02.460 --> 00:04:06.540
So I was brought into my to,
to to make the, you know, to, to

00:04:06.540 --> 00:04:10.260
bring this those innovation to market
and grow them fast internationally.

00:04:10.260 --> 00:04:13.080
So, so in a in a nutshell,
what do we do.

00:04:13.110 --> 00:04:16.770
Mona meadow is, is is an expert in
protein and protein application.

00:04:16.770 --> 00:04:21.210
So if you take the scientific route
it's biology and material science.

00:04:21.210 --> 00:04:27.300
But basically what what we do is we
take protein or we understand protein

00:04:27.300 --> 00:04:32.550
and we harness their property and we
apply them to stuff if you want.

00:04:32.550 --> 00:04:37.350
So in the case of and you mentioned
fashion and you mentioned, right,

00:04:37.350 --> 00:04:41.340
we use plant based protein.
We purify them, modify them.

00:04:41.340 --> 00:04:43.890
Actually it's a byproduct,
right, of an industry.

00:04:43.890 --> 00:04:49.170
We don't actually compete with food.
So we use byproduct of the agro

00:04:49.170 --> 00:04:54.570
industry um plant leftover if
you want.

00:04:54.570 --> 00:04:58.890
We we extract and purify the
protein out of it.

00:04:58.890 --> 00:05:02.580
We use this protein and we
combine it with by other polymer,

00:05:02.580 --> 00:05:05.850
other molecule.
If you want we create a specific

00:05:05.850 --> 00:05:11.610
alloy, which is a solution which
is almost kind of I want to

00:05:11.610 --> 00:05:14.850
simplify it to the end level,
which is almost like a Lego system,

00:05:14.850 --> 00:05:19.940
depending on how, how many,
the percentage of protein and

00:05:19.980 --> 00:05:23.220
how much of that solution you
apply it and how you apply it,

00:05:23.220 --> 00:05:26.910
you get different performance.
So we've created those building

00:05:26.910 --> 00:05:32.370
blocks and we combine them in
different ways, and that helps us

00:05:32.370 --> 00:05:38.670
and allow us to to develop textile.
If you want that looks and feel like

00:05:38.670 --> 00:05:44.310
leather, but without animal input
or materials that are breathable.

00:05:44.310 --> 00:05:47.370
And when people are like,
what breathable material.

00:05:47.370 --> 00:05:50.610
Yeah, it's your your jacket. Right.
You when you go outdoor and you

00:05:50.610 --> 00:05:53.490
do exercise it's it's a,
it's a material that allows your

00:05:53.490 --> 00:05:56.490
perspiration and your body heat
to come out, but you to be

00:05:56.490 --> 00:06:02.130
protecting from the outside. Right.
So by using protein we we apply

00:06:02.130 --> 00:06:05.610
the solution to material.
And and it gives different look

00:06:05.610 --> 00:06:10.050
and feel and different property.
Amazing color breathability as I

00:06:10.050 --> 00:06:13.080
say can look and feel like
leather etcetera, etcetera.

00:06:13.860 --> 00:06:18.700
Um, and wanted to for the people
who are not let's say like we're

00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:21.540
not informed about the problems
with the fashion industry because

00:06:21.540 --> 00:06:26.040
that's what we're focusing on here.
So why would someone want to

00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:30.060
replace the current textiles
with biomaterials?

00:06:30.060 --> 00:06:32.970
What's the problem with the textiles
that we're using at the moment?

00:06:32.970 --> 00:06:36.330
And why do we need innovative
solutions in this field.

00:06:36.690 --> 00:06:40.470
So so I'm going to give very
large stroke right.

00:06:40.470 --> 00:06:45.660
Very big, very vague and
stereotypical because statement

00:06:45.660 --> 00:06:49.530
because obviously there is the best
and there is the worst in the fashion

00:06:49.530 --> 00:06:54.060
as there is in many other industry.
But fundamentally what what happened

00:06:54.060 --> 00:06:58.830
is that the fashion industry is,
is a is a is a very is a very large

00:06:58.830 --> 00:07:02.190
and it's a growing industry because
all of us are very happy buying

00:07:02.190 --> 00:07:06.930
new garments, new shoes, new bags,
and you have more and more of the

00:07:06.930 --> 00:07:11.550
population that is becoming entering
the middle class, which is great.

00:07:11.550 --> 00:07:16.050
But the more you do that,
the more we face challenges,

00:07:16.050 --> 00:07:20.490
which are basically we need more
land to grow, more plant,

00:07:20.490 --> 00:07:24.450
we need more extraction of the
petrochemical to provide materials

00:07:24.450 --> 00:07:28.470
that are what, what what is known
to be synthetic because they are

00:07:28.470 --> 00:07:32.160
very performant material.
So fundamentally at the at their

00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:36.420
origin, at the input part,
you already have a toll on, on, on,

00:07:36.420 --> 00:07:40.860
on the environment if you want,
because it's either extraction,

00:07:40.860 --> 00:07:45.270
it's either animal input or it
is petrochemical.

00:07:45.300 --> 00:07:49.230
The problem is also the process
of converting those resources

00:07:49.230 --> 00:07:52.650
into a material that will become
eventually textile.

00:07:52.650 --> 00:07:56.520
Also engage a lot of energy,
a lot of water,

00:07:56.730 --> 00:08:02.070
a lot of generate a lot of waste.
And this is where, um, there is

00:08:02.070 --> 00:08:07.080
a second opportunity to improve
the if you want the processes of,

00:08:07.080 --> 00:08:09.630
of developing material for the
fashion industry.

00:08:09.720 --> 00:08:18.330
The third part is some companies
have taken the the, if I may say,

00:08:18.330 --> 00:08:21.840
the the party, like we say in French,
they've decided to go into what

00:08:21.840 --> 00:08:25.920
we call fast fashion, which is
more of a disposable fashion, um,

00:08:26.130 --> 00:08:31.200
and where durability and quality
is not, is not the focus.

00:08:31.200 --> 00:08:36.120
Which one of the most
environmentally friendly gesture

00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:40.010
one could have is to buy?
Is to buy something and keep it

00:08:40.010 --> 00:08:44.600
for many years.
So this is where the fashion industry

00:08:44.990 --> 00:08:50.270
has basically identify opportunity
at the input level, at the process

00:08:50.270 --> 00:08:54.440
level and at the output level.
Knowing that a lot of the material

00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:59.390
that is developed is either burn
or landfilled or, you know,

00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:03.320
never used no matter what.
So there is a final opportunity which

00:09:03.320 --> 00:09:08.950
is associated with waste management.
So when we know that and I'm this is

00:09:08.950 --> 00:09:13.270
a very complex, very fragmented,
very old industry that uses so many

00:09:13.270 --> 00:09:17.770
different inputs that that's why
I'm being a little bit generic.

00:09:18.370 --> 00:09:23.020
What the what we try to do at
monumental is, first of all,

00:09:23.020 --> 00:09:25.660
to develop material that is as
performance.

00:09:25.660 --> 00:09:28.600
So performance is a big word to say.
Basically there as good as what

00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:32.530
you have to do, if not better,
that the colors are as beautiful

00:09:32.530 --> 00:09:35.080
as the one that you.
I see a beautiful orange jacket

00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:39.310
on you.
Um, the colors are as vibrant and

00:09:39.310 --> 00:09:43.480
as durable on the on the material
versus on the washer in the washer.

00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:49.150
Um, that your material is abrasion
resistance and is durable.

00:09:49.930 --> 00:09:53.200
As I mentioned, your breathability
when you want to do certain

00:09:53.200 --> 00:10:00.040
activities, um, protective without,
um, you know, falling apart or

00:10:00.040 --> 00:10:03.490
looking like an armor.
Um, having the what we call the

00:10:03.490 --> 00:10:07.090
draping on hand feel is really the
feel of the, of the material itself

00:10:07.090 --> 00:10:12.670
and be as pleasant and comfortable.
Um, so all these are what we talk

00:10:12.670 --> 00:10:16.450
we mentioned as performance and
these are the non negotiable if you

00:10:16.450 --> 00:10:19.630
want when one develop a material
for a specific application.

00:10:19.630 --> 00:10:24.400
And it could be shoes,
could be jacket could be bag

00:10:24.400 --> 00:10:29.890
etcetera etcetera. Right.
Now our objective is as obviously

00:10:29.890 --> 00:10:35.320
not use any animal input but also
reduce to the minimum any type

00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:40.690
of virgin petrochemical input.
We use upcycling and recycling

00:10:40.690 --> 00:10:44.770
because we, we believe that part
of the solution is not only to

00:10:44.770 --> 00:10:48.540
increase bio content,
but to use also materials that are

00:10:48.550 --> 00:10:52.600
that exist and don't have a home
once they're used the first time.

00:10:52.690 --> 00:10:57.160
And this is where upcycling is
very important for us.

00:10:57.160 --> 00:11:03.190
The final element if you want,
is developing material with the

00:11:03.190 --> 00:11:08.020
same quality or better quality,
but with more efficient processes,

00:11:08.020 --> 00:11:13.720
meaning requiring less input,
less water, less energy,

00:11:14.410 --> 00:11:20.050
so that it's less taxing in general.
And this is what we do.

00:11:20.050 --> 00:11:24.040
And we do that things to again
harnessing the properties of,

00:11:24.040 --> 00:11:29.080
of protein.
Um, when, when we, we have a

00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:33.980
specific application in mind.
So I wanted to ask you. Um.

00:11:34.250 --> 00:11:40.990
Yeah. There already some.
Leathers, land based leathers out

00:11:40.990 --> 00:11:45.940
there that are starting to become
more popular, like peanuts,

00:11:46.450 --> 00:11:51.910
pineapple, leather, cactus leather.
They have been advertised as

00:11:51.910 --> 00:11:55.930
replacements for petrochemical
leather or real leather.

00:11:55.930 --> 00:11:58.750
But then there are plot problems.
They're they're probably like

00:11:58.750 --> 00:12:01.930
most of the time they're coated
with with synthetic materials

00:12:01.930 --> 00:12:06.580
that not not 100% plant based.
So what's the difference between

00:12:06.580 --> 00:12:09.760
the leather that you're making and
those plant based leathers that

00:12:09.760 --> 00:12:16.030
are out there and already selling?
So I think that what is

00:12:16.030 --> 00:12:18.520
interesting is, first of all,
it's, as you said, right?

00:12:18.970 --> 00:12:24.970
The materials out there,
including leather, are not 100%. Bio.

00:12:25.960 --> 00:12:29.920
So and this is where I think people
think oh leather is, is is animal and

00:12:29.920 --> 00:12:32.800
therefore is natural or is organic.
And I'm saying yes,

00:12:32.800 --> 00:12:39.910
but not in not 100%.
So what has happened is in we as

00:12:39.910 --> 00:12:46.570
as consumer are requiring specific
quality from our material that nature

00:12:46.570 --> 00:12:50.710
cannot provide at its basic stage,
including leather.

00:12:50.800 --> 00:12:53.530
I repeat,
it's not only a problem of cactus or

00:12:53.530 --> 00:13:00.250
pineapple or whatever it is, right?
So most material, including ours

00:13:00.250 --> 00:13:06.520
does does include some.
In our case, it's bio biopolymer,

00:13:06.520 --> 00:13:12.430
it's a biopolymer, but there is
trace of of of petrochemical.

00:13:12.850 --> 00:13:19.240
This provides the material some
specific integrity in our case.

00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:26.320
First of all, our plant based protein
is a byproduct of an industry that is

00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:30.040
the agricultural industry and that is
readily available, that is traceable,

00:13:30.040 --> 00:13:35.050
that is not NGO and that is not um,
basically if we were not using,

00:13:35.050 --> 00:13:38.200
it would be destroyed.
This is a number one difference

00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:41.170
in terms of the input.
The second is because protein is

00:13:41.170 --> 00:13:43.510
such a marvelous molecule,
it's not a filler.

00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:47.890
And most of the not quote
unquote natural ingredients you

00:13:47.890 --> 00:13:51.430
have mentioned are fillers,
meaning that they are creating

00:13:51.430 --> 00:13:55.360
weight or they are providing to some
extent the body to the material,

00:13:55.360 --> 00:14:00.500
but they they don't have mechanical
property. Our protein has mechanical.

00:14:00.560 --> 00:14:03.170
Mean our blend has as mechanical
property.

00:14:03.170 --> 00:14:06.620
That's why we have materials
that are extremely durable.

00:14:07.160 --> 00:14:12.470
Um, if we wanted to or they have
amazing color spectrum,

00:14:12.740 --> 00:14:16.370
they have again breathability.
This you cannot achieve them

00:14:16.370 --> 00:14:18.620
with other the other material
that you have,

00:14:18.650 --> 00:14:24.410
you have mentioned um finally in
our case we don't we are scaled up.

00:14:24.410 --> 00:14:28.490
We already there is no
limitation in terms of the

00:14:28.490 --> 00:14:32.420
amount that we can produce.
And the cost is the same as as

00:14:32.420 --> 00:14:36.830
current material, including leather,
which is again a different versus

00:14:36.830 --> 00:14:40.280
the the the brands or the companies
you have. You have mentioned.

00:14:40.880 --> 00:14:45.020
Um, so I would say they are bio
innovator.

00:14:45.020 --> 00:14:48.500
I think there is a lot of room
in the market for all of us. Um.

00:14:49.860 --> 00:14:52.680
Everybody needs to be very
transparent and clear on what they're

00:14:52.680 --> 00:14:57.090
providing, both in terms of what
the composition of the material is,

00:14:57.090 --> 00:14:59.070
but also the performance.
In our case,

00:14:59.070 --> 00:15:02.700
we have unparalleled performance.
I mean,

00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:06.630
some of the brand you mentioned,
they do not have the durability,

00:15:06.630 --> 00:15:10.680
they do not have the color spectrum,
they do not have the performance

00:15:10.680 --> 00:15:14.070
that we have.
And we are full blown at scale

00:15:14.070 --> 00:15:18.390
at competitive pricing.
So you mentioned some of the

00:15:18.390 --> 00:15:21.930
challenges within the fashion
industry regarding sustainability.

00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:24.600
The fashion industry has made
some progress there,

00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:27.750
but what do you think?
The progress is still small

00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:31.710
considering the innovation.
So I think there is multiple things

00:15:31.710 --> 00:15:35.520
like first of all is not not not
all the take are not of the

00:15:35.520 --> 00:15:41.790
technology that are out there are.
Provide the same quality that,

00:15:41.790 --> 00:15:48.180
you know, incumbent material provide.
So it is very difficult to have

00:15:48.180 --> 00:15:50.450
a material that is look and feel
like leather.

00:15:50.460 --> 00:15:54.810
We have one which is called by Avera
but is is unique in the market.

00:15:54.810 --> 00:15:59.400
It's a non unusual non animal
derived hide that really looks

00:15:59.400 --> 00:16:02.610
like leather or suede.
But it's extremely difficult to

00:16:02.610 --> 00:16:06.600
obtain the same way the material
that we that is comparable to

00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:10.020
the competition you mentioned
which is called biotechs.

00:16:10.230 --> 00:16:13.170
We are in market and we have
brand like sun, Revlon,

00:16:13.170 --> 00:16:17.580
but also Tory Burch and those
brand have adopted biotechs,

00:16:17.850 --> 00:16:21.690
which is a coated textile that
look and feel like like leather,

00:16:22.020 --> 00:16:26.370
um, the way you want to see it in,
in an accessory.

00:16:26.370 --> 00:16:29.520
But I think that and we have to
praise those brands due to the quote

00:16:29.520 --> 00:16:32.400
unquote, risk to partner with us,
which were, you know,

00:16:32.400 --> 00:16:38.130
we are a startup or a small company.
Um, and, and I think that's what

00:16:38.130 --> 00:16:42.060
is the situation with the fashion
industry today is basically multiple.

00:16:42.060 --> 00:16:45.810
Is the tech viable?
Is the price competitive?

00:16:45.810 --> 00:16:49.620
Is are you going to be able to
produce in the quantities that

00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:55.320
are needed?
Um, and the final is what can

00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:59.070
you disclose what we are,
what you are providing.

00:16:59.190 --> 00:17:04.170
Not every startup give an LCA,
which is a lifecycle analysis,

00:17:04.170 --> 00:17:08.070
which is a really, um,
an overview of the impact of the

00:17:08.070 --> 00:17:10.020
material we're putting in market.
And in our case,

00:17:10.020 --> 00:17:14.250
we have we are providing hard
core data both in terms of the

00:17:14.250 --> 00:17:18.090
quality of the material, but also
on the sustainability profile.

00:17:18.090 --> 00:17:22.170
So compared to synthetic or
compared to to leather,

00:17:22.170 --> 00:17:28.210
the brands that are deciding to
basically use our product in,

00:17:28.210 --> 00:17:31.380
in our material, in their product,
they know what they get.

00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:33.540
They know to to the end level
what they get.

00:17:33.540 --> 00:17:36.660
And I think that this level of
transparency is also not very common.

00:17:37.290 --> 00:17:42.210
But I wanted to ask you, well,
we had some of the guests here

00:17:42.210 --> 00:17:46.290
who are not particularly in the
fashion industry or producing

00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:50.520
materials for the fashion industry,
but we have some who really do that,

00:17:50.520 --> 00:17:54.270
like Lancet Tech or Renew Cell.
I don't know if you heard of them.

00:17:54.270 --> 00:17:58.740
Yes or yes. Of course. Yeah.
And well, their challenges,

00:17:58.740 --> 00:18:01.170
they're they're working with big
brands collaborating.

00:18:01.170 --> 00:18:05.100
But it my feel is like the big
brands are always making small

00:18:05.490 --> 00:18:09.270
capsule collections with innovative
textiles and not, you know,

00:18:09.270 --> 00:18:13.800
embracing it for larger quantities.
Why do you think is that and where do

00:18:13.800 --> 00:18:18.330
you see, um, let's say challenges
in the future and where do you see

00:18:18.330 --> 00:18:22.650
opportunities from where we're at,
where we're at at the moment?

00:18:22.650 --> 00:18:27.090
Will innovative tech brands will
be will they be able to survive

00:18:27.090 --> 00:18:30.570
this market or not?
Well, I think that I'm going to

00:18:30.570 --> 00:18:33.060
stop by the question.
I think that they will,

00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:38.040
you know, we will survive.
I think some of us are going to face,

00:18:38.790 --> 00:18:42.630
um, I mean, there is tailwind
and there is headwind.

00:18:42.630 --> 00:18:47.730
So we need we need to survive and
for because we need to provide

00:18:47.730 --> 00:18:50.640
alternatives that are not less
taxing one way or another.

00:18:50.850 --> 00:18:54.000
So I think collectively we need
to make sure that happens.

00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:57.960
Now there are some tailwind,
which is, you know, the regulatory

00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:01.260
environment is is pushing
everybody in the right direction,

00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:05.520
making sure that not only we are
basically providing transparency

00:19:05.520 --> 00:19:09.660
and traceability on the material,
but also we are communicating in

00:19:09.660 --> 00:19:13.320
a way that is clear and simple
and not misleading to consumer.

00:19:13.320 --> 00:19:16.260
And finally,
the what is the again, go back.

00:19:16.260 --> 00:19:21.180
What is the impact of your material
in terms of scope three globally?

00:19:21.180 --> 00:19:25.950
The brands will have to face that.
Some of them already are very

00:19:25.950 --> 00:19:30.600
clear that they've made pledge.
So they have to find a way to,

00:19:30.600 --> 00:19:35.250
to to to basically fulfill their
commitment. But I agree with you.

00:19:35.250 --> 00:19:41.100
It is slow and they are scared.
They're scared or some of them

00:19:41.100 --> 00:19:43.050
are not incentivized.
I mean, some of them don't see

00:19:43.050 --> 00:19:47.370
the need right away to do this.
Some of them are scared because

00:19:47.370 --> 00:19:49.650
again, they want to have
material that is as performant

00:19:49.650 --> 00:19:54.780
and and and that is at scale.
The third I would say is just

00:19:54.780 --> 00:19:59.340
internal processes.
Um, we are talking about

00:19:59.340 --> 00:20:03.420
materials that are very specific
and they're very technical.

00:20:03.420 --> 00:20:07.920
And therefore when a company
like Modern Metal presents a

00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:11.160
material like biotechs or
BioWare or biotechs shield,

00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:16.020
which is a membrane that we provide
that doesn't use fast or solvent but

00:20:16.020 --> 00:20:18.510
allows material to be breathable.
For example, you would think

00:20:18.510 --> 00:20:22.320
it's a slam dunk, right?
But you have to talk to the

00:20:22.320 --> 00:20:25.890
sustainability department,
the innovation department, the the

00:20:26.220 --> 00:20:30.390
the the purchasing department,
the studio that is doing the design,

00:20:30.390 --> 00:20:36.030
the I mean, you talk to so many
different basically actor within each

00:20:36.030 --> 00:20:41.830
company that it takes a long time.
To get first what you mentioned

00:20:41.830 --> 00:20:44.470
as a collection, but in our case
we rarely do collection.

00:20:44.470 --> 00:20:49.750
We go for usually for the the gusto,
but this takes a long time

00:20:49.750 --> 00:20:54.040
within the company to get all
the actors align. Agreed.

00:20:54.040 --> 00:20:57.280
And to sign at the bottom of the
page to switch from material they

00:20:57.280 --> 00:21:04.060
know is is more polluting, but is is
they know the good, the body ugly

00:21:04.060 --> 00:21:08.160
to something that is new to them.
For her. And how is difficult?

00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:11.640
It is our slow. Yeah.
Yeah, well,

00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:14.880
especially in big companies.
But, um,

00:21:15.060 --> 00:21:19.710
can you tell me is the challenge,
maybe the communicating of the new

00:21:19.710 --> 00:21:24.960
technologies to consumers and then
to potential collaborators, as in

00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:29.280
big brands, big companies as well?
Because so far, when I'm talking to

00:21:29.280 --> 00:21:32.820
people from the clean tech, biotech,
agritech, nature, tech space here,

00:21:32.850 --> 00:21:36.720
they do say that the communication
is a challenge because people

00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:41.970
are slow to accept new things.
So how it has been for you?

00:21:42.390 --> 00:21:46.050
I think companies and consumers
in different phase,

00:21:46.290 --> 00:21:50.850
we feel different issues. Consumers.
I think it's not a question of slow,

00:21:50.850 --> 00:21:52.020
right.
If you tell them, okay,

00:21:52.020 --> 00:21:54.720
this is the same,
you get the same thing, but better.

00:21:55.290 --> 00:22:00.690
Um, and it's it's less taxing on
the environment and it's circular

00:22:00.690 --> 00:22:03.660
in our case and this and that.
They will they will go for it.

00:22:03.930 --> 00:22:07.650
I think that the,
the challenge is the misunderstanding

00:22:07.650 --> 00:22:11.460
of miscommunication.
I think that a lot of the brand

00:22:11.460 --> 00:22:15.060
or even innovator sometimes come
out to say that, oh,

00:22:15.060 --> 00:22:21.390
we are 100% this and we are 0% that,
and we are. And it's not the reality.

00:22:21.390 --> 00:22:24.720
Again, you know, there are a lot
of misconception as well.

00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:28.650
People think that leather is natural.
There is nothing natural in

00:22:28.650 --> 00:22:31.380
anything we use.
I don't want to pick on leather.

00:22:31.380 --> 00:22:34.770
It's the same thing that
everything else that is around us,

00:22:34.770 --> 00:22:38.550
everything is processed.
And I think that people

00:22:38.550 --> 00:22:43.560
sometimes forget that,
and they have this high expectation

00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:47.790
that are sometimes unrealistic based
on where the technology is today.

00:22:47.790 --> 00:22:52.260
That said, it is our duty as as
innovator to not only continue

00:22:52.260 --> 00:22:55.980
to constantly go further and
push the limit, but also to say

00:22:55.980 --> 00:22:59.190
what it does and it doesn't.
At the end, we are on a journey.

00:22:59.190 --> 00:23:03.900
And yes, what what I keep on saying
is in our case, we have material

00:23:03.900 --> 00:23:09.120
that is that are bio replacement.
They are as good but less taxing

00:23:09.120 --> 00:23:12.960
in terms of sustainability KPIs.
And we have solutions that are bio

00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:17.040
best because they are unleashing
performance that don't, not even

00:23:17.040 --> 00:23:20.820
the existing material provide.
But this is where we need to

00:23:20.820 --> 00:23:23.490
explain that to consumer.
And unfortunately sometimes we

00:23:23.490 --> 00:23:29.220
don't have the they don't have the
attention span to to to understand

00:23:29.670 --> 00:23:32.700
what the situation is today and
where we're going tomorrow.

00:23:32.760 --> 00:23:37.080
In terms of the brand,
I do believe that that really their

00:23:37.080 --> 00:23:41.670
challenge is to simplify this
message while being genuine and

00:23:41.820 --> 00:23:46.920
and as transparent. And they can.
And this is again where we work

00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:50.280
with them to not only provide
them innovation that are sound,

00:23:50.280 --> 00:23:55.350
but also how to simply communicate
or communicate it as simple as

00:23:55.350 --> 00:24:00.890
simply as possible to the end user.
You mentioned traceability and

00:24:00.890 --> 00:24:03.290
transparency several times
during this talk.

00:24:03.290 --> 00:24:08.810
So can you tell me how can fashion
industry benefit from having a

00:24:08.810 --> 00:24:12.320
similar level of transparency,
transparency and accountability

00:24:12.320 --> 00:24:14.960
in the supply chain?
So I would say, first of all,

00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:22.250
it's not easy because every every
item that you can, that you sell at

00:24:22.250 --> 00:24:26.810
the end to a consumer is composed of,
of and touched by hundreds of of

00:24:26.810 --> 00:24:30.380
companies and peoples. Right.
So it's not an easy task,

00:24:30.380 --> 00:24:33.010
is it impossible?
No, because there are other industry

00:24:33.020 --> 00:24:37.820
example, the beauty industry that
has implemented systems that allow

00:24:37.820 --> 00:24:44.360
this traceability to be to exist.
The reason why it's earlier in

00:24:44.360 --> 00:24:47.300
the beauty,
hygiene and and health industry is

00:24:47.300 --> 00:24:53.180
because it is touching human health.
Therefore, safety being what it is

00:24:53.600 --> 00:24:58.070
those systems and processes have had
to put into places 20, 30 years ago.

00:24:58.580 --> 00:25:00.680
Now it is new to the fashion
industry.

00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:03.470
A lot of things have to be set
up and a lot of things have to

00:25:03.470 --> 00:25:08.090
be at great cost.
And this is where this is an

00:25:08.090 --> 00:25:12.050
industry that has very low margin
and a lot of local players.

00:25:12.050 --> 00:25:14.270
That's why it's taking a lot,
a little bit of time.

00:25:14.570 --> 00:25:22.070
In our case, we are a newer
company and we have had that in

00:25:22.370 --> 00:25:26.780
at our core from the get go.
Therefore, all the ingredients

00:25:26.780 --> 00:25:32.030
that are composing our solutions,
we trace them.

00:25:32.030 --> 00:25:35.300
This is how we do business with
our current partners and any

00:25:35.300 --> 00:25:39.440
future partner.
This is kind of a a way we do

00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:42.500
business.
Therefore, when we talk to a brand,

00:25:42.500 --> 00:25:47.420
they have the ability to really
understand all the input and

00:25:47.690 --> 00:25:53.570
where it is being processed and,
and, and produced and how again,

00:25:53.570 --> 00:25:56.480
that's to do an LCA.
By the way, this is what you need.

00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:00.770
So no, no LCA would be possible
if you didn't if we didn't have

00:26:00.770 --> 00:26:02.990
this information.
But this is not an easy task.

00:26:02.990 --> 00:26:08.480
It's but it is an important one.
And it would allow it will allow

00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:13.490
every actor in the industry to not
only understand a little bit better,

00:26:13.490 --> 00:26:16.610
be a little bit more accountable
and responsible for what we do

00:26:16.610 --> 00:26:20.600
or don't do, and make more
intelligent choices in general.

00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:25.190
And, um, how do you see the
future of Modern Meadow?

00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:31.580
Do you see, um, biomaterials changing
traditional ones and then making

00:26:31.580 --> 00:26:35.000
the fashion industry better?
Oh yes, yes and yes.

00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:38.560
So I think the future for us is
is very bright.

00:26:38.570 --> 00:26:40.800
I think that there is a lot of
work to do.

00:26:40.820 --> 00:26:45.440
There's a lot of opportunities.
There is a lot of challenges that we,

00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:50.150
we, we, we can help solve.
We we will not and cannot do it

00:26:50.150 --> 00:26:52.880
alone.
That's why we have tremendous

00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:56.660
amount of of amazing partners
that are going to help us.

00:26:56.660 --> 00:27:01.190
And we are joining to, to solve
because it is for the right reason.

00:27:01.190 --> 00:27:03.770
It is for the right reason in
terms of business.

00:27:03.770 --> 00:27:08.090
It's the right way to do it in
terms of, of, for our teams and

00:27:08.090 --> 00:27:12.020
our partners and stakeholder.
And it is the right thing to do

00:27:12.020 --> 00:27:14.390
for the consumer,
and eventually it will be the

00:27:14.390 --> 00:27:18.170
right thing to do for the planet.
But no, there is a lot of things

00:27:18.170 --> 00:27:23.190
to do and we look forward to it.
Then how to make biomaterials

00:27:23.190 --> 00:27:27.000
and all other sustainable, more
sustainable materials more available

00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:30.590
for for brands and companies.
Well, in our case,

00:27:30.590 --> 00:27:34.400
we are you know, we had obviously
we talked to a lot about fashion,

00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:38.420
but we are fashion footwear.
We are talking to the automotive

00:27:38.420 --> 00:27:42.590
industry, the upholstery industry.
We're talking to many, many industry

00:27:42.590 --> 00:27:47.630
airline, some companies, all of
them are looking for material that

00:27:47.630 --> 00:27:54.620
are as as qualitative, but again,
more environmentally conscious.

00:27:55.250 --> 00:28:00.440
So again, we are in many, many
industries with different material.

00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:04.120
As I mentioned, biotechs,
biotech, shield, bio vera,

00:28:04.850 --> 00:28:10.850
all materials that are that,
that provide those opportunities

00:28:10.850 --> 00:28:14.030
or those possibility to those big,
big industries.

00:28:14.300 --> 00:28:17.090
All of them are wanting to do this,
and we're going to join and

00:28:17.090 --> 00:28:18.650
partner with them,
and you're going to see us,

00:28:18.650 --> 00:28:21.980
or you're going to feel us when you
sit down, or when you hold the bag,

00:28:21.980 --> 00:28:25.850
or when you wear a pants,
you're going to be basically,

00:28:25.850 --> 00:28:28.700
the material is going to be powered
by our innovation at monumental.

00:28:29.530 --> 00:28:33.820
That's great to hear for the end.
Can you tell us?

00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:38.800
Can you tell me and our listeners,
viewers where they can follow

00:28:38.800 --> 00:28:41.860
Modern Meadow,
where they can get more informed

00:28:41.860 --> 00:28:46.240
and learn about the other, um,
other biomaterials that you mentioned

00:28:46.450 --> 00:28:50.230
that we didn't talked about here?
Well, I would say go to our,

00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:54.310
our website and there you will see
our partners, both in terms of

00:28:54.310 --> 00:28:57.770
brands and in terms of business.
I mentioned Sunray, Sunriver,

00:28:57.780 --> 00:29:02.620
Everlane, Tory Burch closed.
But there is also other partners

00:29:02.620 --> 00:29:05.050
that we, you know,
that we're working with,

00:29:05.050 --> 00:29:08.800
like the Syntex and the Lemont or,
or the BSF of the world.

00:29:08.800 --> 00:29:13.360
And these are the the companies
with which we work very closely to,

00:29:13.360 --> 00:29:16.810
to provide better innovation. Yeah.
We're going to mention all your

00:29:16.810 --> 00:29:19.300
handles in the description of
the video audio.

00:29:19.300 --> 00:29:22.900
So everyone who's listening can
check out the description and click

00:29:22.900 --> 00:29:26.500
on the links and find out more
about Modern Meadow and Catherine.

00:29:26.950 --> 00:29:29.680
Thank you once again for being
my guest on the Green New

00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:32.200
Perspective podcast.
And my last question I have to

00:29:32.200 --> 00:29:35.160
ask you, how do you see the
future of sustainability?

00:29:35.170 --> 00:29:38.380
Are you optimistic,
cautiously optimistic, or.

00:29:39.130 --> 00:29:42.040
No, I am optimistic because it
is as I said, it is.

00:29:42.040 --> 00:29:46.000
It is a it's the right thing to
do for financially.

00:29:46.090 --> 00:29:50.200
Business wise and human wise.
And now is it going to be a

00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:53.230
smooth ride? It hasn't been.
It's not going to be.

00:29:53.950 --> 00:29:59.980
But it's, it's a, it's a, it's a good
challenge to for every one of us to,

00:30:00.010 --> 00:30:04.260
to tackle in our own way. Well.
Thank you. That's a great answer.

00:30:04.290 --> 00:30:05.430
Thank you once again.